Guest: Ross Fulton – Operationalizing Your Customer Success Strategy

Jason Whitehead: [00:00:00] Hi everyone and thanks for joining us for another episode of the Jason’s take on.Really excited to have you here, where we look at a variety of issues around bold customer success. Today. We’re really excited to have a special guest with us.

Ross Fulton who’s the CEO of value-wise and Ross helps B2B software companies build industry leading customer success, strategy and operations. And, really excited because Ross brings unique expertise and aligning strategy and operations and technology and data, and making sure that customer success team to really delivering the results and growing profits.

Today Ross is going to share his insight it’s around effective customer success strategies and how to operationalize them, and I think what we’ve seen is a lot of organizations really struggled to develop effective strategies and if they can get those down, then they really struggled to implement them in a way that delivers the results.

So I’m really looking forward to hearing Ross’s perspective on an app on these can do that better. Before we introduce Ross also here with my co-host Jason Nobel, your UK Jason’s pay. Hello?

Jason Noble: [00:00:55] Hello. Good morning. Good afternoon, everyone really excited about this Ross. This is such as Jason said such a key topic, and I think the kind of getting the strategy side of it, for a lot of organizations, they really struggle with it. They’re coming to customer success. Very reactively tends to be very tactical, but how do you make it a business wide strategy and look at it properly. So really excited about this. Great. Thank you.

Jason Whitehead: [00:01:16] Ross, before we kick off with some questions here, can you just take a second to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your background, your organization, and how you came to

Ross Fulton: [00:01:23] be.

Absolutely. Thank you both again for having me join your love, love this show. So yeah, my background and how this led to my founding Valley way is I’ve been in B2B enterprise technology for scarily kind of 17 plus years now. In my operated days, I was fortunate enough to have roles where I was often standing in the sales.

Acquisition side of these companies and the post sales. What became known as customer success side of these organizations at the same time and this wall or cousin that so commonly still was, they exist between the acquisition and adoption sales. Post-sales. Strategies, operational models, organizational models, or something that I had the opportunity to really feel and smash those walls down in my in my career.

And that just seemed to be the right thing to do for a long time. And then as the recurring revenue model was the subscription economy started to take hold of these B2B technology companies. It came clear to me that it wasn’t imperative. And that creating this United revenue and customer life cycle, both strategically and operationally and organizationally to get these recurring revenue models working successfully was really a necessity.

And I had the good fortune to be able to work with. More than one organization that transformed its business model from perpetual licensing to subscription evolve its technology stack into the cloud, and really be able to help them evolve with the way that they drove sales as well as per sales to support those evolutions.

And it struck me that there was a member, a very large number of companies, not just in B2B technology, but certainly where I was going to focus B2B technology. A lot of these companies going through the similar transformation or they, maybe they were born in the cloud and born in the subscription model, but they still based on leadership that they’d hired, et cetera, had legacy models around how they sell it and how they managed customers post-sale.

So I thought, Hey, I can maybe go to help these organizations. And so that created value wise and it’s been a hell of a ride so far. We’ve been in operation since 2017. And we’re now working with the fastest growing largest tech companies in the world on exactly this equation. And we love what we

Jason Whitehead: [00:03:46] that’s.

Fantastic. Great. Thank you so much. So

Jason Noble: [00:03:49] I love that and the background that you’ve got there coming from that operational part where you’ve seen these pains before and seen firsthand, because I think that gives you quite a unique experience. Doesn’t it? It does. It

Ross Fulton: [00:04:01] does. And Hey, I’m the first to admit that I was, guilty.

I was proponent in all of some of the legacy practices for a good chunk of the first sort of phases of my career. I didn’t know necessarily any better. I was when I was on the sales side of the organizations, I was like, yeah, let’s get the deal done. Let’s get the customer across the line. I wasn’t thinking about how we actually deliver measurable value to that customer once we acquired them.

But again, just as with so much of life, I was fortunate, lucky, and I got an opportunity to build a or help lead building a. Business unit and say one of Europe’s largest technology services companies that was based on a gain share revenue model or performance-based revenue model. And that type of revenue model was really a very sort of extreme foreshadowing of what was coming with the subscription economy.

We, as a gainshare based business, We only got paid. If we delivered value to the customer, could we pay it ourselves out of that value? And so the need to acquire the right customers and take a prescriptive approach around here’s the value we’re going to deliver. Here’s how the value is going to get delivered.

We need you as a prospect to agree to this upfront, before we start actually delivering. Is how the business model worked. And I had no idea at the time it was going to be such a foreshadowing of how every B2B technology company today needs to structure its strategy, but it was, and it really, it was a hell of a baptism of fire and nothing that just proved to be fairly relevant for a 20, 21 and onwards.

Jason Noble: [00:05:30] How do you see them in a lot of organizations really struggle with this and struggled, developing, and building their successful customer strategies. What do you see as some of the biggest challenges and even mistakes that organizations are making about this and what else could they be doing instead?

How do they change that?

Ross Fulton: [00:05:46] I think the four organizations that do have a legacy that Has includes an origin pre sort of subscription economy in a big, I think, a big win for them. And that really will help catalyze the evolution they need to go through is really understanding this new revenue model.

That and the unit economics within this revenue model or that subscription and consumption, let’s call it recurring revenue model, just to capture all the all the basis. What are the unit economics, all of that type of recurring revenue model and how do those unit economics map to marketing sales?

And post-sale strategies, AKA customer success. I see a lot of organizations of all different sizes who are, who have their affricates internally around. Hey, we’ve got to be driving customer success. We need to invest in it strategically, operationally, organizationally. But they’re struggling to really create the quantifiable economic business case as to why they need to do that.

But the business case is always there is there in their unit economics around gross revenue, retention, net revenue, retention, how those map and Mel drive the valuation of these companies, the sustainable profitability of these companies. And then, and the fact that if you can invest in, do invest in customer success.

You’re going to see that valuation of that profitability increase because those unit economics they’re going to benefit. So really taking the time to understand these unit economics from bottom to top of the company, I think is a big one because it just removes the ambiguity. It removes the subjectivity around customer success.

It’s no longer just about what it’s the right thing to do. It’s the, almost the honorable thing to do for our customers. It changes the conversation to know this is the economic lifeblood of our company. And if we don’t retain and expand our customers through customer success, We’re going to die as a company it’s very black and white.

So I think that exercise is very important if for companies that have gone through that, and they’ve gone past the why phase in terms of the why to invest in customer success and do it properly. The next bigger mistake I see is really approaching it as just simply an organizational. Challenge or organizational solution in terms of we’ll take maybe our current post-sales organizational elements, professional services, support, technical account management, et cetera, or rebranded as customer success.

And we’ll whack a kind of customer success, vision and mission against it. And voila, we’re doing customer success and that, unfortunately it doesn’t work like that. We need organizational elements and empower them with the right strategy, the right operational capabilities, the right incentivization models, and integrate all that together to create a market leading customer success strategy, just saying, Hey, we have a CSO organization.

And assuming that last thing going to drive the gross and net revenue retention, the company needs is. To be to me, candidly, bizarrely, common and and something that we’ve, we, as value-wise sort of pull them back down and offering work and say, yes, organizational is important and the branding of it, et cetera.

But we’ve got to fill the fuel that organization with these other elements as well.

Jason Whitehead: [00:08:53] Yeah, I think that’s so true. I’m seeing many organizations where, they just changed the label, change the name, try, Keep the existing staff and really don’t do a whole lot different other than now.

They’ve just market it. And then if it’s a marketing and a branding effort for customer success, as opposed to what are you going to do? That’s different than that will have a different impact at all. You’re not going to get very far. And then it’s pretty disappointing, so I, we’re also leads to another question too, which is, if you believe organizations need to have that listic view that you talked about and really put the right things in place and processes.

How do you take that holistic view and developing customer strategies and how should companies be aligning and integrating their customer strategy across marketing sales and post-sales how do you bring it all together in the right way? And I guess related to that third one, if you had to pick just one action that would be most critical for achieving success, your wellbeing.

Ross Fulton: [00:09:41] Yeah. I think the key to creating that holistic integrated Strategy organizational approach, operational approach to this is to take the outward to inward looking approach, which is actually park the internal dynamics around who’s doing what, et cetera, et cetera, and just begin with the customer and begin with the customer in the context of, we need to.

To be able to drive retention and expansion of revenue from those customers. Let’s all agree that to do that. We need to be able to enable that customer to realize measurable value from their adoption of our products and services and this, so this concept of driving measurable value realization, fire out customers’ adoption of our products and services.

That is a universal concept that marketing sales and delivery are every other post sales function can get behind. I believe when it should be able to get behind, it creates a common dialect. It creates a common mission and the science that goes into enabling customers to realize measurable value from their adoption of your products and services.

It spans marketing, it spans sales in a net new acquisition context, and it spans all the post-sale elements of the journey as well around. Customer success and, or, this is the challenge with the term customer success as well. Do you mean professional services as well, but for the sake of argument in this conversation, when I say CS I’m including every aspect of the post-sales journey.

So this, yeah, this. Science and this concept around it’s all about creating measurable value for our customers, because that is the way that we drive. Then the internal goals around retention and expansion of these customers. That’s where we have to begin. And if you, we have a framework and values that we prescribed to our clients and a foundation of it.

Is this concept of, we must have find outcomes that represent that measurable value that customers can achieve through their adoption, by our products. And every other element of the framework is driven from that foundation. The sale was playbooks and enrolls, the post sales, playbooks, and roles, how we’re leveraging customer data, how we’re operationalizing these strategies through technology, it’s all rooted in that foundation.

So it just takes out the political, the cultural, the. Economics sort of variables and, or subjective arguments internally, when you just say it’s just about the customers about prescribing and delivery, measurable value. That to me is the key of creating that holistic integrated approach.

And it’s something we’ve applied many times as value-wise and we’ve, yeah, we’ve seen it as transformative impact many times over. My, my final point on it, but why it sounds well, it sounds easy. Why wouldn’t everyone just do that challenge with it? That again we we were very acutely focused on and body wise to make sure our clients get past.

This is that it’s a huge degree of vulnerability around the subject of. All we enabling our customers realizing measurable value from our products, especially in an organization in a software solution or any type of solution provider that’s been around for a number of years has got hundreds. If not thousands of customers using products to now, whatever, wherever it might be.

Five, 10, 15 twenty-five years later, say, hang on a minute. Do we know if our customers are realizing measurable value from our products, can we define that value? Can we measure that? Can we quantify it? It’s a fairly vulnerable question to us. It’s obviously of course we can, but what can we and it’s yeah, choirs that top down vulnerability to say we’re not seeing, we don’t know, and we’re not saying it’s not happening, but let’s just validate that we do have that value defined in the form of outcomes that we can prescribe.

We can deliver. We can measure. And let’s, yeah, let’s swallow up swallow our egos as whether it be product leaders, sales leaders, per sales leaders, and just all that’s the hard question. That’s the cousin to cross in this journey that we find a lot of organizations get stuck at. Maybe talk about that LinkedIn and experienced experiences I’ve seen there, but it it is where you have to stop in my opinion.

Jason Noble: [00:13:49] Okay. How do you, once you got through that start and you’ve got the strategy, how do you then get people to, and I’ve seen this with other businesses, you can come up with a strategy, the vision, but how do you then operationalize it? How do you then filter it down the rest of the business?

You’ve talked a little bit about it, then he intimated some of the steps, but could you share a bit more insight for our listeners as to what do you see organizations need to do to how they go from strategy to actually making this work?

Ross Fulton: [00:14:14] Yeah, absolutely. So we agree that the strategy, the foundation of it is the definition of these outcomes.

From these outcomes, we can then say, okay what do we, as the vendor, the solution provider, and what does the customer themselves need to do in terms of tasks and activities to. Progress themselves through this journey to achieve each outcome and to be able to measure the value of it. And so it’s that definition of activities and tasks and the associated role definitions that form the playbooks, the processes that become the more sort of detailed elements of the strategy with those starting to be.

Come to life, we can then start to think about data and we have to think about data and we start to ask the question what data do we need to trigger the right action at the right time? And with the right customer, with the right person in that customer per the design of the playbooks, to make sure again, that we’re driving this journey forward and what data do we need to capture off the back of each action we execute, or the customer executes?

To tell us whether that action was successful and was it as efficient as possible. And so when you talk about customer led actions, we’re starting to get into product telemetry data, product usage data is the customer doing the right things in the product per the formula that we prescribed them to say, Hey, if you, if that user can do these jobs in the product, by using the product in these ways, and we can track that, we know they’re moving towards achieving this outcome.

That combination of playbooks processes, role definitions, and data foundation is what we then operationalized through technology. And so the technology side of this equation around CS technology or any, whatever the technology might be that was the very sharp pointy end of this framework and of this motion.

It’s where the rubber hits the road. It’s where the business impact and the efficiency and the scalability of the strategy is achieved. But it needs to be fueled by the strategy and by the data. And so another common I think mistake we see organizations make is let’s say that they do the organizational definition.

And they don’t just do a rebranding. They will then jump straight to saying, Hey let’s go buy some technology or let’s check it out in our current CRM and expect that to give us all singing or dancing customer success strategy. And that’s just, it just doesn’t work like that.

There’s technology out there is designed to operationalize your data and your strategy is not there to give you your strategy. So I’m viewing it as, yes, it is. It is an imperative part of this process in terms of the technology, but it’s not the silver bullet. You’ve got to fuel it with a strategy is another very strong recommendation we make to our clients.

Jason Whitehead: [00:16:50] Yeah. You touched on a lot of things there too. And I like one of things you said early on about taking the ego and the personality out of the equation, the politics and all that stuff. And at some point when you go to operationalize, I find a lot of times that it eats back in, and trying to figure out how you deal with that.

And also I’m curious, cause you mentioned the silver bullet of technologies. I think we see that quite a bit where they have people, technology is going to solve it. And if we have this, it’s going to make a lot of that other stuff go away and would mostly be great. What do you say to a customer has to these false expectations about their technology or the strategy, or even some of the ego and personality issues that are going to come in?

How do you recommend organizations that, approach those issues?

Ross Fulton: [00:17:27] Yeah, I think the, when we talking about the organizational aspects, ego culture politics, it is a coming, but I have certainly subscribe to the whole culture eats strategy for breakfast theory. And that culture ultimately is a top down driven concept in at least in enterprises.

And we specialize in Valley wise and in late stage two public enterprise companies is top-down and and so one of the very positive, healthy evolutions that I’ve seen in the types of companies we specialize in terms of B2B software is the evolution of the CRO or the chief customer officer role, where you’ve got this one single accountable.

Oana full, not just acquiring that new revenue driving the retention and expansion of revenue from customers and not own a recognizing that’s achieved by having this holistic customer success strategy. I think that is. Transforming the culture or is at least the key catalyst to try to transform the culture.

And a lot of companies we see and we work with and is going back to that wall. I was describing that still today, many organizations stand between sales and post-sale the emergence of that role is starting to disintegrate that war in a lot of organizations. So I think that’s. That’s a very positive one.

Tactically just quickly on the organizational side of the equation, incentivization models are often somewhat overlooked in terms of being a key part of this equation around ensuring that there is an aligned incentivization across the customer life cycle to drive the right behaviors in the organization.

And if you take sales and if you have a Hunter sales organization, that’s just purely focused on net new. If they’re not incentivized to care about whether the customer they acquire is then successful and can be retained next. And you can’t really blame the poor souls for acting the way that they do.

And so let’s incentivize them accordingly. And whether you want to do that through carrot and stick as a whole other conversation, but let’s make sure that there’s some consideration and an incentivization for them to say let’s make sure we acquire the right customer. Let’s make sure we acquire a customer.

We can make successful because either I’m incentivize or I’m. Oh, I believe potentially penalized if we don’t retain that customer, let’s say after the first year. So instead of ization and the same goes with post-sales in terms of I want my CS organization to drive expansion. If they’re not incentivized to do that, then we’re we’re giving ourselves a bit of an uphill.

An uphill battle on the technology front, I think this is the category of CS. Technology is still relatively young, certainly compared to MarTech and sales, tech, and CRM. And I think partially for that reason, we see a, still a lot of organizations that look at customer success technology as being.

A bolt on a plugin to something that you stick in the side of the CRM or whatever you might be using. Whereas in fact CS technology as a category and there’s platforms out there that warrant this definition, it is enterprise grade and mission critical. Software that runs your business.

And so the operating model or the administration model, the development model that you see and organizations wrap around the likes of their CRM around Salesforce, that’s required for CS technology as well for you to be able to get the optimum value, scale and efficiency out of that software. It’s not something you can just have someone run off the side of their desk.

As a CSM, it’s something that is it is mission critical software. So treat it accordingly. But again, we see a lot of organizations who are we don’t quite understand what the CS technology does quite understand the value of it. So we’re certainly loathed to build an operating model around it.

And we’re probably lower if the really even hire a full-time administrator for it. But as the software requires,

Jason Noble: [00:21:22] I was going to say Ross, that, that point there is so key. And I’ve seen so many times where you do, you almost bring in the tool, the technology, but in its own, right. It creates a silo and a new silo, and it’s how you then get everybody to buy in.

Guys. This is actually a critical piece of enterprise technology for our business and for our customers. I need you to use it. I’ve seen that multiple times, and it is a big challenge that you have. I know a lot of these organizations, you. You’re not just purchasing the software or subscribing to the software and the new models, but you’ve also got to look off, like you said, your point an admin, you need someone full-time pretty much full time to administer these applications.

And that’s another cost that you didn’t think about. Yeah.

Jason Whitehead: [00:22:04] To that point too. So many CS, Oregon are so many. B2B organizations still don’t fully understand CS and CS. People struggle to get a budget for even staff members or little things to think that they’re going to get the same amount of budget that, Salesforce wouldn’t be or things like that.

I think it’s a tough lift right now, but hopefully that’ll be changing over the next few years and I suspect.

Ross Fulton: [00:22:24] Oh, I think he will. I think that there’s a collision course happening here where that C CS technology, as a category of technology, its capabilities, the value it can create. The significance is starting to take inside organizations.

To me. There’s not a sustainable existence between that and the CRM category. Yep. I don’t know what the timeframe is. Three to five years. That’s going to be a collision course here and we’re going to end up with one and whether or not we care what it’s going to be cool with, but it’s going to be a single platform or single category of technology.

Yeah, that provides a system of record capabilities that CRM provides today around customer data, but the system of insight and system of action capabilities that CS tech provides that CRMs don’t provide around digital journey, success planning, et cetera, et cetera. So I don’t think it’s gonna, this is not going to be a dichotomy that’s going to exist forever, but it is one today, which is arguably horribly inefficient.

Jason Noble: [00:23:23] I think that’s spot on and it really. You look as to where CRM has come from and it’s been around for as long as it has 20 plus years. Everybody understands it a lot better. But when you talk about customer success management technology, it’s very poorly understood. And I think you’re so right that we will particularly as CS professionals and leaders continue, we want the CS tool at some point it is going to come together.

Yeah. How do you see. The data side of this. So you’ve got with you with your CS tech, with your CRM, you’ve got customer data and you can effectively capture it, but capturing it is only one part of it. If you’re capturing it well, how do you then use that data and get value from that data?

Do the analysis on that to actually give you actionable insights. What are the key steps that you see some of your customers and organizations having to take for this to use the data more effectively and to ask the right questions about it?

Ross Fulton: [00:24:15] Yeah, very great question. Very important subject and yeah. So I think going back to the first part of your statement, if they’re capturing it, Correctly and clean and rare.

But it is improving. That’s

Jason Noble: [00:24:29] a big assumption.

Ross Fulton: [00:24:30] Yeah. If they have the golden record of a customer and it’s clean, it’s got a unique identifier, all that fun stuff. And then we can wrap that around with other key insights around telemetry usage. I mentioned earlier voice of the customer data and when many other different data inputs, how do we then leverage that goes back to.

The strategy design in terms of the strategy should drive and be leading the definition of the questions we should be asking all of that customer data. And if we, again, break down the definition and the concepts of strategy is made up of the definition of the outcomes that create measurable value for our customers, and then the processes, playbooks roles, et cetera, workflows that we’ve designed that we know if followed enable those outcomes to be achieved.

That’s what we’re defining a strategy. Those processes, playbooks. We can extract from those, the leading and lagging indicators that tell us whether those processes and playbooks are being followed or being followed successfully or creating the results that we want are being followed efficiently.

That those questions then become the questions we need to ask about customer data foundation and start to drive the definition of KPIs and metrics and health score, logic, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And yeah, we see, we certainly see a lot of work. I spent earlier in my career. I spent a lot of time in the business intelligence.

Does it started to emerge and they’re like mid two thousands out of the murky ERP reporting world. And the whole concept there around, you’ve got to be asking the right questions of the data, and then you’ve got to have a plan to take action on the answers to those questions. Is it that’s a never ending concept that’s valid for everything and as valid for customer data in terms of we’ve got a customer data foundation, if it’s accurate and as clean as it can be, let’s define the questions we should ask for the data based on the strategy. And then the strategy will also tell us what actions we should pay off the back of the data.

So we go, it’s a bit of a vicious circle when some companies we don’t have the strategy. And they’re like we have to build a strategy to know how to get value out of the data foundation and by the concept of customer data, because you’ve got the sales forces and the system of record concepts often, there’s a lot of organizations who are spending a lot of energy, a lot of investment around customer data.

But to your point, Jason, they don’t know what to do with that data once they have it. And that’s because they’ve under invested in the actual design of the strategy. So we, yeah, we keep putting them back down to this concept of the strategy. Design. And but we, it’s got to be a bi-directional design flow in that there’s no point in designing a strategy or a set of playbooks.

I can’t actually be operationalized. Because that data doesn’t exist. We’ve got to know data does exist. How healthy is it? How clean is it? How can we leverage it? During the strategy design. So it’s a bit of a sort of bi-directional flow in the same way that technology fits into this equation as well.

You can’t design the strategy in isolation of the technology. You’ve got to ensure that you’ve got expertise on the technology infusing the design of your strategy, because why wouldn’t you design strategy that takes full advantage of the technology capabilities. And also let’s avoid designing a strategy that is expecting the technology to be able to do something that it can’t.

We see that isolation of someone over here is doing strategy, someone over here doing data. Someone over here is thinking about the technology, but they’re not connected at all. And what does it net out in zero improvement and zero business impact? Because none of it’s connected together.

Yeah,

Jason Whitehead: [00:27:57] no, it’s so true. I’ve seen that in a lot of projects like CRM in particular, where it’s designed in a vacuum in a lot of silos and the the net result is very underwhelming all the way through. But Ross, thank you so much for sharing your insights and the time has gone by quickly, but before we go, we’re all about bold customer success on our podcast.

And we’d like to present a bowl challenge question for our listeners. Really didn’t have you as a guest here, some of your actual ideas. So let me ask you, what is the single most important, bold action you would like to see companies take to develop and implement more effective customer strategies, really outside the box, bold, aggressive.

Ross Fulton: [00:28:32] Yeah, I think it is. I think it’s bringing in the right members of every single, I honestly believe every single part of the organization, product engineering, sales, customer success, but bringing in finance, bringing in human capital management, et cetera, and have this conversation around.

Can we articulate the measurable value that our products. Create for our customers. And by that articulation in the form of an outcome or outcomes that we can link a value equation to a value calculation to say, Hey, if a customer has current state a they can achieve future state B.

And that creates this measurable value. How’s that conversation because I can guarantee you, you’re going to have lots of voices in the room that can talk about your value proposition. That is distinct from the measurable outcomes that you can map directly to. A customer adopting your product and value outpace outcomes are below is the level of detail below the value proposition.

Just get in the room and have that conversation. And there’s no, there should be no pressure, no expectation around whether it there’s no wrong or right answer at this stage. And there’s no one who comes to the head around you better know this answer. Otherwise there’s going to be trouble. Just have the conversation because I think it’s very, it will be very enlightening and making sure you have it across the organization, it just creates a unity around if you maybe don’t have the answers or not the answers to the extent that you think you should have the answers.

You can have a cross organizational ownership of that fact, and that provides you the foundation then to flow into cross cross organizational unified strategies, operational models, et cetera that we’ve been talking about for the last 30 minutes.

Jason Whitehead: [00:30:17] Great, fantastic. Thank you so much for being with us and joining us and sharing your ideas with us.

Before we go, I want to invite you to do a shameless plug for value-wise and tell people a little bit more about what you guys do and who you help.

Ross Fulton: [00:30:28] Sure. No, absolutely. I’ll be a short by my marketing team if I didn’t do that. So yeah, we’re alleyway, evaluators.co.co. Yeah. And yeah, we have a consulting company.

We provide this end to end capability around customer success, strategy, operations, data and technology. To the fastest growing and largest tech companies in the world and will help them ultimately maximize their net revenue retention as an organization. We love what we do and if you’d like to reach out and connect with me on LinkedIn, please do so and or connect with any other member of our team via via social media.

Please. Do we love this subject? We love talking about it. If anyone would ever like to have a chat about this stuff, then please reach out.

Jason Whitehead: [00:31:10] Fantastic. And I’ll have links to your LinkedIn profile into your company in the show description below. So thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate the

Jason Noble: [00:31:16] conversation, the whole conversation, Ross really big.

Thank you for that really interesting stuff. Really excited about watching what you guys do.

Ross Fulton: [00:31:23] Oh my pleasure. Thanks Jason. Thanks, Jason. Love your work. Thank you.